JM: I absolutely agree that the population problem is going to face a huge challenge. 1.4 billion people in China sounds a lot, but I think in the next 20 years we will see this thing will bring big trouble to China, and the population decreasing—the speed of population decreasing is going to speed up. Now you called it a collapse. I agree with that.

EM: Accelerating collapse. And then the common rebuttal is like, what about immigration? Like, from where?

JM: Yeah, you want to go to Mars…

EM: Mars needs people, you know, Mars, people, you know, there’s no zero people there right now. It’s right now it’s the machine planet, there’s only some robots there.

JM: This is something that we should pay special attention—that’s why the the 18 million new babies born in China, which was less than only like 1 percent of something, we should spend more time creating these people and treat life better. In our company, AI we call Alibaba intelligence because we think when things with order, with things with logic, machines can always do better, AI can do better. But if things wisdom or without logic, human beings can do better. For example, when you love somebody, there’s no reason. Normally, I just love him or just love her, I have no reason. But when I hate somebody, when I want to do bad things on something, somebody, there’s a logic and when there’s logic, AI can do better. We teach machines all the bad things that bad guys want to do. Machines can learn quickly, and arrest all the bad guys immediately. But when you want to do good things, not necessarily.

EM: AI means love.

JM: That’s absolutely right. So that is why the world—if AI can bring love, which I called in the past, if you have the successful person, you have to have EQ and IQ, right? In the future, if you want to survive in this world, you have to be the LQ— the Q of love, that’s important too. Otherwise cannot survive in that deficient. Talent is time.

EM: I agree, love is the answer. There are many songs about that.

JM: So you want to talk about machines, life? Or do you want to talk about your cars, autonomy? What do you want to talk?

EM: This feels like one of those steps in a video game where you’ve got like pick a path. I choose life.

JM: Okay, life. So how much longer do you think people can live with the help of AI? Can AI help with environment sustainability?

EM: Well I think first of all, I think humans will solve environmental sustainability, I do not mean to suggest complacency. Or that we just take it easy. In fact, this is a self fulfilling or unfulfilling prophecy. We must take immediate and dramatic action. And continue the momentum towards environmental sustainability. And China is actually the world leader in this. In fact, I’m not sure how well it is known outside of China, just how much China is a world leader in environmental sustainability. It’s extremely impressive. I mean, I think half of all the electric cars in the world were made in China last year, or something like that. So you know, so I don’t mean to suggest complacency. But I do think humans can and will solve sustainability.

If we can, if we can do the Neuralink essentially, age will not matter that much. You can simply save your state and restore your state. Just like a saved game, essentially, something very close to that. I do think we can we can solve biological aging, if we really wanted to, you’d have to make DNA changes, but we’re obviously just on a on a clock, all organisms are. I mean, you could take a fruit fly, for example. And you could have it do daily yoga, and have a very healthy diet and is still going to live for three weeks, maybe four weeks. So environmental factors are relatively minor for extending life, you have to change the DNA. So the question is, like, will people be okay with changing the DNA? that’s the thing about extending life, you know, and probably people are a little bit reluctant about that. But that’s essentially the thing that needs to occur to extend life. or you’ve got to stop the DNA clock somehow. I don’t know if we should work on this or not. I think, frankly, you know, it’s probably a good thing that we do eventually die. You know, there’s a saying, like, in physics, like even physicists, which are generally quite objective, is like, there’s a saying that all physicists don’t change their mind, they just die. So, maybe, you know, it’s good to have this life cycle.